Rainy Lake Experiment: Comments

Thursday, January 30, 2020 - 00:46 | Author: wabis | Topics: FlatEarth, Knowlegde, Science, Experiment | Comments(5)
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1Marcus Gaillard 2/13/2020 | 23:51

Sorry but there is a simple effect that when we observe at a low angle across a planar surface we see a bump in the middle. It's an optical effect. This can be seen looking across a floor or table. What you have here is not a proof of the shape of the ground beneath us, or its placement into "outer space".

The Earth is not a spinning space ball. You would need to account for oceans sticking to a ball in a vacuum by demonstrated experimentation.

2wabiswalter@bislins.ch (Walter Bislin, Author of this Page) 2/14/2020 | 05:12

We did take refraction into account. Refraction was always so that it bent light down, never the other way around. So if the earth were flat, we would not observe a bump, but a concave surface. There were never conditions observed where light could bend upwards so that a flat earth would look like a globe.

Did you miss the part where we measured the targets and water levels with differential GPS? This are geometrical measurements, not optical. We measured geometrically curved water and ice! And the measured geometrical curvature has a radius of about 6400 km.

The experiment you request is physically impossible to execute on earth. There are things that don't scale. But you can go to space and observe the globe earth rotate. And we have plenty photographs from a time where no CGI was invented, so that argument is lame.

The following website serves as a digital repository for the hand-held camera photography captured during the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo programs, which flew between 1958 and 1972. NASA team members at Johnson Space Center scanned the films in an ongoing effort to preserve, share, and commemorate some of the greatest historical achievements of humankind.

Following the completion of each mission, master duplicates were produced and the original flight films were placed into archival storage. These galleries are digital scans of the original films – and the first instance in which they have been provided on the Internet.

3Calvin Grier 5/28/2020 | 22:20

What a wonderful resource you have provided. The simulations are quite spectacular, and the analysis is top-notch. The knowledge and care you put into this work is easy to see.

I apologize for posting this comment on the Rainy Lake page, and it has more to do with your View Geo Data page - but I didn't see comments turned-on anywhere else. The lake experiment with time lapse is very compelling, and I shared it with the flat earth guy that posts the oil rig platform videos on YouTube.

Can you provide more information on how to obtain X, Y, Z data using GPS for someone that's looking at logging data on a trip? I've found some resources that might help me process a dateset with Log, Lat, and Elev. but would prefer to find a way to record those coordinates directly using an app or cloud based resource.

Thank you!

4wabiswalter@bislins.ch (Walter Bislin, Author of this Page) 5/29/2020 | 21:27

I have not found any commertial GPS device or App yet that does not convert the intern calculated ECEF x,y,z coordinates into latitude, longitude and elevation. GPS tracker and Apps can often export lat,long,elev in KML files, which kann be plotted in many Apps like Google Earth.

But survey grade GNSS receivers do record the raw GPS satellite data and x,y,z coordinates and export them in the so called RINEX data format for later postprocessing. This way using the method of Differential GPS they can achieve much better accuracy down to mm level.

I got such data from Jesse Kozlowski, not only from the Rainy Lake experiment, but also from the Causeway, the Bonneville Salt Flats, the State Kansas, NGS CORS, the UNAVCO reference stations and more. Jesse has software that reads and processes RINEX data and can export the x,y,z or lat,long,elev data in many other formats, like CSV textfiles, which I can import into my Display Geo Data App and plot.

I have programmed a converter that can parse some KML formats and transform the lat,long,height data back to ECEF x,y,z coordinates:

There is also programmed a page that can convert between ECEF and geodetic coordinates individual points back and forth:

Note that this converter requires the ellipsoid height, not the geoid height to calculate the original x,y,z coordinates. GPS receivers usually calculate the geoid height. But often the small difference is irrelevant.

To convert between ellipsoid height and geoid height you need some software I don't have. You can probably find some free software online. The geoid databases can be downloaded for free and you may probably find some software to use it there too:

If you are interested in building your own receiver and find out how to calculate the ECEF coordinates from the satellite measurements and data, see here:

5Calvin Grier 6/3/2020 | 18:14

I appreciate the detailed reply and your explanations.

My attempt to use the data from GPS Logger (Android) didn't work very well. I used this input from the KML I was able to export from the Android cellphone:

<name>Track 20200601-184326</name>

But the "Convert <Placemark>" button only yields this output:

Track 20200601-184326,536859.2994507143,-5267146.913363845,3545259.769582144

It seems to only see the first line of data in the list of coordinates. Do I need to post-process the data, adding the right XLM tags on every line?

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